Episode 261: Podhemian Grove

00:00 Podcasting 2.0 for May 29th, 2026 episode 261 Podhemian Grove! Well we are back just one week off Hello everybody welcome to podcasting 2.0 This is where it all goes down The boardroom the board meeting Where we talk about all things podcasting Everything that's been everything that is and every thing that will be We are in fact the only boardroom That actually knows what a podcast is I'm Adam Curry here In the heart of Texas Hill Country In Alabama the man who checks all his package managers daily say hello to my friend on the other end the one the only pot saves Maybe not all of them. Yeah, you should be checking every single one everything go on But I don't see the part the live The live bot well I pinged the pod Hmm

01:00 Podcasts live at podcastindex.social is not... No, hold on a second. ...shows nothing Let me see what's going on here let me see let me see okay here we are debugging the show already let me check that's half of our show We're live I have a GUID I'm pretty sure you know what should like is it bad if I regenerate the GUID even if I've already done a new one For the live item? Yeah. No, go ahead. Okay did it again okay save publish publish sending to server successfully and then I'll just uh i'll just hit hit this again 22 oops come on 11

01:52 Okay, going live. Sam Sethi says we are live? All right well if Sam says it then we are live! I mean we're streaming hello boardroom! I agree with that because Sam's products have the most stringent RSS feed requirements in the universe you can't you cannot sneak anything past even legitimate stuff sometimes you can't sneak past although there was something with the payment metadata that was off Payment metadata? Yeah, there was... Oh I need to fire up my uh For true fans you mean? Yeah! There was something and i've been seeing it too. It's like something was You know you'd have to resolve the metadata in a helipad yeah who knows someone is someone sending invalid data That's amazing any of this stuff works at all to be honest about it oh let me see where's my Where my helipad at?! Where my helipad helipad helipad okay that bears repeating honestly

02:49 What it's amazing that any of this stuff works at all yeah, yes. It's the god honest truth man I'm always amazed like yeah, but people get so mad and jaded Well A lot of things don't work. Yes, no kidding! My first and second marriage being great examples of that I was restricting my comments to just the technology sphere but you know feel free. All right, the helipad is up and rolling so that looks good. Okay Captain Sweatpants says that tiles.podping.org shows

03:33 The pod pings are going through. There must be something wrong with Spurlock's bot? Well, the live bot...the litbot in the boardroom has registered us as live so that should be good. Spurbot is broken! Is that an actual name for the spurbot? It is now. How you been brother sorry about last Friday No it was fine where did y'all go to Nashville Yeah for for the big K-Love award fan weekend. Yeah, which people a lot of people don't will not know what that is and I'm not entirely clear what that is So K-Love is they as a ministry they bought up pretty much every single Christian contemporary music radio station in the country and simulcast one signal now to all of them

04:24 That sounds like a thing that happens a lot and is never good for anybody. Yeah, well exactly it's removed all local radio which is you know why there's for some reason I have a feeling that someone's trying to do something about that what does that company called yeah? I know what your talking about So they're in Nashville where all the writers are, the musicians most of them that is and so You know, they're all kind of beholden to K-Love. So K-Love has a concert Friday night in the Gaylord Hotel at the Bio Dome which is pretty cool because the big ballroom holds probably two and half three thousand people and the sound is good and they got screens and my favorite... The words are on the screen so you can sing along. And have a bouncing ball? No!

05:13 It should though, it's kind of funny. And then they have writers round tables you know the writers talk about the song and the story behind it which is unfortunately a lot of actually I talked about this with Pastor Jimmy on We Get to Do This on today show A lot of its like well my sister died, I got cancer backed up over my dog In fact, the whole weekend was ashes to beauty. I'm like... Where's the joy in the Lord when things are going great? Yeah, it was a little depressing. Well that's very 2026 honestly. Yeah totally straight up and then Sunday they had Levi Lusko who's... he was from Los Angeles He was in the music entertainment business and became a pastor In Montana of all places got a pretty big church there And he's young guy you know great great sermon

06:12 And then of course, Elevation Worship. And then Sunday night is the big award... Like a proper award show from the Grand Old Opry airs tonight on TBN and if you are into the Cal-Shee and Polly Market, CeCe Winans will be the artist of the year so you can go and bet on that right now. Polly Market? Are you performing there? Former Google employee. Well, no I was at the show so I know who won so they can go bet on it I'm guarantee you she'll win Yeah That's not actually supposed to say that as we're all sworn to secrecy But yeah, but there's a bit there's no NDA so you could correct correct So yeah, so it actually was really nice but I just completely spaced like oh man We were supposed to do the show and and it wasn't it was crazy because

07:07 We were so busy, but my robot has been working so well on my show prep. And with that I say... So well because here's my observation of all things AI. It doesn't matter if you're doing code, show prep editing clips whatever you're using your robot for there is very little consistency reproducibility and iteration If i had an intern And I said, intern look at this list and make clips of every single URL. The intern once they figured out how to do it they would do it and they'd just be making clips

07:52 Yeah. 40% of the time, the robot will go well you know I didn't think you needed a clip of that because you talked about that three shows ago and so i just skipped it and yeah I know I have knitter to get the X videos but uh... It wasn't up so I decided to just let it go So thats the consistency part Reproducibility this is my favorite everybody can do this Go to your favorite robot and type in, show me a house with a chimney and a cat in the window and a dog in the yard. And then get the picture and then do the exact same prompt and see that this completely different picture. Yeah on the first session. On our first session. Iterating is my favorite

08:39 And you can do this with images. I do it with clips like hey, could just take that last word off and then it does something completely different Hey, I love this picture Could you just make your hair blue sure? It'll make the hair blue and the sky a different color and the grass will be gone. That'll be cement So yes so the intelligence part of AI is non-existent So it is a great tool You just have to be on top of it all the time literally I have this great little bit for credits. So while no agenda end of show mix is running, I say go into the spreadsheet and we created a code word, credits all uppercase it should know what to do because it has its memory MD files knows exactly what to do and then yesterday

09:27 It just puts one person exec, all the rest of the associate exec with the numbers they donated and their titles and their jingle requests. Like what are you doing? Why are you doing that? I'm saying, oh yeah you're right. No, I have a memory file about this it won't happen again let me take note of that so it won't happen again well this is bullcrap It'll happen again and again and again So this is going to create...so I am more productive This is completely true I am more productive I do spend a lot of my time correcting it but I'm a lot more productive I can live more and show prep less

10:06 It's not going to replace any, it's not even going to replace an intern. An intern would be better at this point and cheaper because interns should you know I would pay $200 a month for an intern to do all the work can't find one so it's only going to create more jobs and everything is vastly overvalued that there you go that is your report from boots on the ground from Adam Curry What? There's a way I will ask you question. Do you see these same issues when using robots for coding oh Well, so yes and no the first For tobacco back you up though first of all in the fight in the financial world the

11:05 the futurologists and the permanent conference speaker class, they're still infatuated with AI. And they're making tons of money talking about it? Yes. Travelling around to conferences saying how AI is the future and it's going to replace everybody's job but boots on the ground within the financial world that is... The reality is beginning to set in. Mm-hmm. It is that you give It's the thing that you most need help with like this is a 150 page document That I need to get some information out of but uh, But I don't want to have to read the whole thing in order to find these bits of information You can't there is absolutely no

11:55 way to depend on the output of what it tells you. If you say, if you ask some questions about what's in this document, you don't know whether it gave you the right answer but if you go and check, you can be assured that at least 50% of the time, it is wrong. It has the wrong answer? It is wrong! And I have documented examples of this from people Because what's happening is you've, I think the people who are actually building things with inference. They have real... What people have realized is the inference itself is not enough. Yeah, I like how you say inference where I say inference. Is it inference?

12:43 Well, I think I say that because you... Because you say that I have to infer. You know that somebody inferred something? It makes you sound very smart. I'm going try it. Inference. Yes. Well in that way it reflects reality. Also where..I am also wearing glasses a little round glasses Oh like Ben Franklin glasses cool No I'm not So the reality has set in that you have to build guardrail systems around these things. And what you really have to do is you have to build software

13:24 that does the thing you want it to do. And then you bring in little bits of inference at certain aspects of the pipeline, right? Right. To do things if you just give a chatbot or an agent if you just give it something and let it run You're going to get wildly different and hallucinated results Yeah yeah all the time also so I am The main The main tool I use is Whisper. And I use it on Together.ai so I can whisper a Rogan podcast and pull something out very quick, it's amazing because you're pumping up a huge GPU and it just goes so fast. So I use this for clips and say alright go listen to this

14:18 five-hour Senate session, find things that are on my list of things of interest and then pull clips. And it would do this with variable success and then I had this brilliant idea –and this kind of folds into what you're saying–I said, Do you test your work? He said no. So well when you do code Don't you do a test if the code works? Yes, it's called the unit test. Oh alright so whenever you Pull a clip Do a unit test to make sure that you don't have a dangling word at the end A little blip of audio and that really improved it by 100% By telling it to treat what I'm doing as code and it got us Yeah, yeah That's the only way that any of this works. Yeah, like things like

15:11 It's that classic example of why, of how an agent like Cloud Code can tell you...can build and entire HTML page but with JavaScript. things running in it, but it can't tell you how many letters there are... How many letter R's are in the word strawberry. Because there is like.. It doesn't understand a way I'm trying to be very careful with my language It has no mechanism in the harness To test those sorts of things Right right right The only way that You have to tell us to do a dictionary lookup to test it

16:01 Well, no. That's... well actually because anything that has if you're asking a question that the agent doesn't already know it doesn't already know a pattern of language for Then there's no way that you'll ever get out of the model that thing that you want. So what you have to, the only way it can work if you and get it right every single time is If you ask how many letter R's are in the word strawberry? If it builds a Python script and actually runs code check The presence of the number of the letter r That's the only way it works

16:42 And it's not doing that all the time because it's too costly. You can't... Yeah, I got no time to build a Python script! I'm just gonna tell you two! That's why yeah that's why it's terrible at math. Because every time you ask in a math question it would have to go and create piece of code that runs the math to tell you the answer to the math because it there's no do it can't but I can't do it so he can't do it. I know you brought clips and I want to bring you back to them, so that we're not just all about this week in AI We're going to...I'm gonna ask you a question then I'm going to ask The Book Of Knowledge the same question

17:27 And that question is very... it's a hot topic today, hot topic! Because there's an entire industry the entire podcast industry I'm reading no one asked you. No one asked me no one even asked James Cridland What is a podcast? You're asking this question being posed to me. I am asking you what is a podcast um To me a podcast is media distributed over some sort of open protocol. Ooh, you took the some sort of path that's interesting I don't want to restrict it to just ourselves. I like that! Shall we ask the book of knowledge? Oh Lord yes Book of Knowledge What is a podcast

18:31 According to the Book of Knowledge, a podcast is a digital audio program made available on the Internet for downloading or streaming typically released in episodes and often focusing on specific topics or themes. Modern podcasts can be accessed through various platforms and applications allowing listeners to subscribe and receive new episodes automatically thus It has been written. Did not bring in the open protocol part to me that's what the reason it has to be some sort of open protocol RSS or I would even say if even if is just on a website

19:13 that you can watch for free or distribute for free. I just feel like the most critical part is the distribution. I'm with you on the distribution, but i'm sure you also saw the big news about YouTube and Spotify and who else is in this group? You're talking about Amp? Yes Amp The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting. Let's see who was in this? Oxford Road started this up, your buddy Dan. Yeah I like Dan Spotify better help. It's an advertisement draft Kings OK shocker. I'll tell you guys what a gambling app is if you can tell me to podcast the United Talent Agency Flight Story Lipson Sirius XM and PodScribe

20:10 Yes, it's yeah. It's a my favorite part of this whole thing was you they quote emerged from secret Yeah, that's how podcasting was built baby in secret. Anytime somebody emerges from secret in the world of podcasting it's bogus you can go jump off a cliff I'm not interested in anything you have to say Rob Greenlee is delighting and all this In the secret whatsapp group he posts

20:48 The term podcast is really now defined by the audience. That is a challenging reality! Whatever meaning we as an industry apply to the term podcast will just be for the business side of things now I think the hard truth is that consumption platforms and the users of those platforms now control the meaning of podcasts The terms creator economy, new media are becoming the top of the funnel now. Podcasts or podcasting are part of those terms we have hard choices to make here, We're now victims of our success! I also wonder why the IAB is not involved in this group? Well i'll tell you because this is not about podcasting This is about advertising money and they say so And that's the thing that...I love Rob but he misses this point every single time

21:46 I remember Todd going round and round with him on the New Media Show about this over and over again. I know, really! I miss Todd in this moment. Todd it would have been so great to have you here. I'm gonna kill ya! I miss him... He just misses, he forgets, many people do this not just Rob, many people do this in the podcasting world They forget that like 90% of podcasts don't make a dime off advertising. Yes! They just do it for either just purely the fun of it, just for marketing or just for donations and buy me a coffee and stuff. Send me some pickles

22:33 Yeah. Advertising is actually a pain in the butt, you know what I mean? Like you have to, you have to bill yet. You have to handle all this stuff. You gotta bill it out. You gotta wait months to get paid it so it's a, it's a thing that a lot of people just don't unless you're making significant revenue, it's really not worth even trying and it's so much easier to do Patreon or, uh, um, uh, boosts or anything like that. There's something it's just gotta be for PayPal donations or anything because the advertising route is such a pain and then you have these guys coming out of the woodworks out of this secret secrets

23:18 Out of the secret. Yeah, they're cut and then in this like oh we're gonna tell you how all you need to change podcasting in order To make all this better. I don't even think they're doing that. I'm thinking just trying to say hey We're podcasts and we want some of that podcast budget That's all this is about yeah, but we want ya and perhaps it's even worse. I think it's even worse We're a podcast, but we belong in your new media budget. I think that's really what it... because the real money, the podcasting money is good apparently billions and billions But the true new media Google etc money YouTube money is much much bigger So I believe I should probably ask Dan Granger about it. I like Dan and we have... We should get Dan on this show You know that's a good idea

24:16 He always wants me to come into like, hey I'm at South by...I couldn't actually do it but I probably didn't want to do it anyway. Like, I'm at South By Southwest we're gonna have a panel about what is a podcast? And I'm like oh man I'm sorry I got something else to do which I really did. I gotta get my hair washed and go poke my eye out! But that's truly the issue here is that the podcast people want more money from other new media budgets, but they know and this is why IAB was not invited. They know that they really don't have a good metric for measuring success and so i think it's twofold It's one how do we come up with the standard way of measuring a podcast? And you know by not inviting any other podcast app

25:12 to the table, you're showing your cards. Well Paul said that this morning he was like the fact that on this secret group there's only one... The only podcast app that is listed is Spotify? That tells you everything you need to know! Yeah They are not interested in any traditional podcast app I mean even just make it look better throw Pocket Castle and they are somebody But no. Yeah, I'm trying to... Did they actually say we came out of secret? Is that what they said? That's what James said! It may be him being snarky but uh.. I'm looking at this article he says uh... Let's see... Quietly convened AMP assembling a brain trust of 12 voting members Voting member parties To address an urgent need for radical change Oh here it is Brought together by Oxford Road the group

26:10 The group, including voting members from Spotify, United Talent Agency, SiriusXM, DraftKings, Lipson and others have been working in secret since last summer. Driven by what it calls industry-wide confusion. This is their industry wide confusion of both a lack of standardized metrics and disagreement about where podcasts end and social videos begin. If anybody thinks that what is going to come out of this is some new way to actually measure podcast impressions better, that's not what this is because there is no way to do that. It isn't possible. This is great the AMP Accords website? it's like the Abraham accords only for dumb videos. Was it signed at Camp David?

27:04 A billion dollars of demand is sitting on the sidelines. It's about the money, which is why leading platforms advertisers publishers and creators have come together to create the first podcast podcasting measurement framework there it is yeah wait and it's gonna start I can already tell you it's going to start with first party data Yeah. That's what it is going to start with, it's gonna say everybody's gonna have to have a login and we're gonna make you know blah blah blah Well here it is the AMP Accords The AMP Accords Is Trump apart of this? The AMP Accords Three goals The AMP accords target the measurement gaps holding podcasting back across open RSS closed platforms buying selling an attribution Number one standardized impression metrics defining the units that all major platforms can map to Major platforms

27:56 2. Develop cross-platform performance measurements, buzzword! Create a consistent attribution method acceptable to open RSS and closed systems. Oh they're throwing us a bump 3. Define podcast agreeing on a universal classification for industry sizing buying selling and measurement I'm confused. So... Develop a cross-platform way, creating a consistent attribution method acceptable to open RSS and closed platforms? You can't do it! No it's not possible It's inherent thank you Follow the Amp Accords as they go public. Ooh they're going public Yeah let's get Dan on the show

28:45 Yeah, we do because this feels like a bunch of people who feel very...who feel like they are very important. But like thought leaders leading platforms industry experts You think there's a couple of people they could have invited not that I'm Not that if you'll slighted by it, but invites invite Sam Sethi. Yes Exactly. He's my podcast standards project. Yes Why does your voice go up when you say that? Draft Kings drill

29:22 Better help, but I'm gonna keep my voice low now DraftKings better help. Yes, I mean like what? This is okay. Sorry. I can't take this seriously so let's just let's just tabletop this Let's just game this out Dave. Let's game it out any type of Is there anything the podcast index slash podcasting 2.0 group of vagabonds can produce for this group now no longer secret that will be a value and help to them?

30:02 Is there something we can provide to them that will help them on their journey from accords to celebration? Yes, we can tell them to stop. That will save them a whole lot of pain and I'm not even joking because nobody's gonna do this How many times has this been tried and expressed as What do they really want? Our agency spends more than half a billion dollars a year inside podcasting and I still cannot tell a CMO with confidence what counts as an impression. Impression. Dan Granger said that. Television solved that in 1950 Yeah, with the bull crap metric! They couldn't tell you either. No Digital solved it in 2005 no they didn't

31:03 2005 we were still counting hits. What are you talking about? The hit counter. Yeah. Podcasting is the only major medium left where the platforms ask advertisers to take their word for it and advertisers still do, no they don't radio TV all of it works that way That honor system has to end and the AMP Accords point to a new beginning And again, if you look at this from a technical perspective the only way to get real playback metrics is with first party data. Okay stop I'm just we're just table topping here okay? This is how we did COVID now we're gonna do it for podcasting That's right yeah If...I'm just throwing something out there

32:00 So we have a lot of podcast apps. Spotify actually seems to have trouble, that's why they're going to video attracting people to use their audio product if we all had first party data and We all gave it to the Accords the amp accords would be Amp accords cut the podcast apps in on some of the money no Sorry, I went up again. It's okay! Well then that is the only way you could even conceive of making this work and there's no mention of it is if you want this valuable data then you would have to cut the app developers in on it which I actually believe would be very positive for podcasting in general Do you think UTA and DraftKings

33:03 Give a shit whether or not Castamatic gets a cut of the playback. They should, the playback? Yeah if somebody listens to an ad on Castamatic in a podcast I don't think any of these people give one rip But let's just look at the analogies they are choosing radio, television etc. If I have a blog and i put ads on my blog regardless of what the content is my blog gets a cut of the money if I have a television station and I run programming produced by a third party which may or may not pay for it My television station gets a cut of the money if I have a radio station my radio station gets a cut of the money but then when it comes to podcasting

33:56 No, we're not going to give you any money. This is the core of their problem." If they came out and said okay everybody who gives us first party data and there's ads running in podcasts and they're on your app You're getting a piece of the money it would happen overnight. You'd have no problem I think almost every day there would be some developers who do the same thing. Hey, you don't want us to track you for ads? Pay me just like YouTube does no ad. The model is there but they're blind they're blind to the opportunity if they really wanted this...I can sit in this meeting for five minutes cut in the app developers you got yourself a business

34:42 It's that easy. And are you really going to tell me, well I don't want to spy my users? No! They'd be going, I'll take the money. They're starving artists. I mean that quite literally app developers are starving artists. I think every single one would be like yeah okay i'll do that The fact they did all this in secret... To me I can't get past that. And it's not because I'm some sort of open source zealot, you know? It's just that you can't get credibility for an initiative like this when you start it with some kind of secret WhatsApp group.

35:34 This is dumb. No, I'm completely there with you. It's dumb! I am handing them the solution to their problem. No, I feel what you're saying and know exactly what you're saying and think it's It's the right move and it is exactly what they're not going to do. Everybody who wants to make money is making money except app developers, hosting companies make money if they have some kind of ad tech they are making money off that everybody is making money except app developers every single person

36:13 Why do people use a certain app? Because they love the app, they love the way it functions. They love the features You will solve this problem The next accord can be a party Break out the champagne people we've solved it Dan Granger Hello Dan Granger listen to my voice Cut the app developers in on the ad spend and you will have exactly what you want End of message. Not happening. Well, you say that but why is it? App developers raise your hand because look who's involved because look who the members are no but Sirius XM Spotify They're not gonna they're not gonna cut anybody in on that What do you mean they're not going to cut listen if you if you're hosting and you have an ad network You already cut in

37:06 If you're hosting... They are. Yeah, if you're... Because they run the ad networks and the app. I can literally run the numbers and show that it would be accretive to their business if they cut the app developers in But they don't care? Yep! They do care. They want this That would be like Google saying that Firefox needs to get a cut of all the ad revenue that comes, that served from Google's ad servers. They're not going to do it! Now this is a very interesting case... Apple gets a huge amount of ad revenue for sending stuff to Google. To Google search traffic

38:00 You know, I think it's apples and oranges. This you saying they're not going to do it is probably the default correct answer if they did do it table topping remember Lab 257 We just we're just gaming this out baby red team red team If...if you cut the app developers in The problem would be solved overnight And everybody would have the same metrics, it'd have better metrics than you can even imagine. There will be upsell type metrics. You know hey log in... The app developers could cut their customers and I can see the ecosystem right in front of my face and I think app developers have moved beyond the, I just want to be a neutral now now you're starving

38:55 So, why wouldn't you? You know who doesn't care? Users actually don't care. Users get tracked and monetized everywhere except on podcast apps! Everywhere else! People are monetized by apps and websites and computer operating systems The users actually don't care anymore. So why don't we all join hands? I agree with him. And let's jump in, it is now called the Atom Accords and... Is Netanyahu going to be signing this? Oh you had to take me there huh! I mean if it's called the accords come on that's only a Middle East thing

39:40 We will open the straits of podcasting. If you join the Aids of Podcasting, the oil will flow! It will flow like money like black gold I tell ya! That's the way you sell this thing. You come out of secret and you say, we're going to reopen the Straits of Hormuz but we just need all the podcast apps to give us first party data I'm telling ya! Yes that's it And I just want a show of hands Well screw that show of hands BoostIn let me know if your an app developer Would you give first party data for a cut of money? Let's see Sam Sethi

40:24 777 do you recall our conversation on podcasting 2.0 about reverse SATs I think with splits You can pay the app dev the podcast and even a small amount for the listener then everyone wants to hear ads Yes, I recall yes, I understand no that is not the way the Adam Accords are going to work Straight up Sam Sethi, boost me back. If you could get... if you gave first-party data to the advertising agency and you got paid 10% or 15%, or 5% of the ad revenue would you take it? You are the most commercial minded guy I know make your choice wisely

41:13 Okay, let's just wait and see what he says. We'll wait until he comes back. And you know Martin is out there listening Mitch is out there listening everyone's out there listening why don't we bring in Franco? Why don't we bring in Mike and see what he has to say I wonder what he says yes ladies gentlemen welcome back He's been on The Boardroom before I think Yes I'm sure he has Sam Sethi with a ceasefire violation Welcome back to The Boardroom from Blooper Hey everybody it's Mike Dixon Mike Dell on the microphone. Hey, how's it going guys? I had all kinds of comments and if i was recording them then it would be an interesting subtract. Well we're sorry we completely forgot about you. We were in our own little world. Mike tell us exactly what you do at Blueberry

42:02 I am the VP of operations, which basically chief bottle washer and do a little everything. You know we're small team. So we would now Blueberry has ad networks you have add monetization systems in place what's he think of the Adam Accords idea of cutting in the app developers on the ad spend if they deliver first-party data Yeah, you know they're giving data. They should get something in return for it but on the other hand how much data do you actually need? You know if I do an ad on somebody's podcast i'm going to measure by how much did I sell because of that ad not How many people listened to it or skipped over it or ignored it coming in with three sevens on the set Sam Sethi says

42:53 Survey says, hell yes I'll take the money. Exactly. Of course! That's just spoken like a true Samsonian. He now takes his seat at the right hand here in the Adam Accords. I'm really getting out there. I gotta be careful what i'm saying. Lightning bolts are in the air But it's really that simple It's that simple? I think is actually a great idea They should do that. Stop monkeying around, stop circle-jerking with meetings. Alright who's gonna do the coffee and donuts next time? No! Put it out there This is the kind of thing that podcast people have loved for so long, is to have like non-profits and steering committees. Oh yes! Everyone grab the wheel what could possibly go wrong? Steer the car... Yeah exactly And we need a foundation for so and so It's like all that stuff evaporates instantly I think you're wrong

43:58 Draftkings would love to know exactly how many people heard their ad and their location, and what app they were using in their operating system. Were they walking? Were they sitting down with a sleepy? Where are they in bed? And you know for little extra Benny I want to who they are now that I'm sure people will give that up That's your reverse SAT, Sam Sethi. Hey if you give me a login and you give me your name and some details I will give you 5% of my 5%. This is America! This is how we operate. DraftKings is probably not a great example because they would have the immediate vested interest to...they would just...or somebody like Polymarket

44:48 They would immediately just monetize that information. With like, bet on how many people listen to our ads in a... Well okay now you're just being funny I have delivered a solution for the podcast industry that held meetings in secret No! I believe in the Adam Accords the ambassador for the Adam Accords. I will gladly go with some sort of tribute to whoever, but they will not talk to us. We are not welcome. Mike would you like a title in The Adam Accords? Oh sure! I'll take anything yeah

45:37 Well, there's your answer everybody. It is very simple we don't have to have any more conversations or meetings the top podcast apps will all take your money it's that simple and the users will be even happier for it Hey! We're going to promise them to give them the right ad at the right time That old yarn. In your fridge, order your milk. I actually have this on my list... You know? I heard the surprising story that the BIPOC podcast creators has closed because no one gave them money anymore and the money they got was to enter into podcast awards! Are you kidding me?! This is nuts!!

46:25 So yeah, once DEI folded your money went away. It doesn't mean that podcasting is racist or that we don't love you or that you're not welcome here it was a virtue signal to start with whole thing is just like duh Sir Spencer said have say he said they're not looking for there just want confidence They're not like They're not looking for, let's see... they aren't looking for saying something true. They're looking for saying something with confidence That sounds to me- that is such an insightful thing to say I think. Well, yes. That has connotations for our entire-

47:19 Well, it's true. It has connotations for everything today Yes but that's what Nielsen has always been its confidence they came up with a metric everyone agreed on it early on 1950s I'm like okay that's it we don't question it we don't say it's no good We don't compete with it because it works for everybody So yes is confidence and the Adam Accords will deliver mega-confidence and upside you've never even thought of Stop circle jerking you people. Dan Granger, call me. Slide into my DMs baby! Let me talk to your group I will represent all the independent podcast apps except for Overcast

48:06 No, if you talk to the Abraham or whatever their accords are called. The Amp Accords! If you talk to the Amp Accords they're gonna say things like they did about you in the Podcast Standards Project in the room. They're like everybody was in agreement except Adam who was heckling That happened? Somebody's got a heckle, you know. Was that in the report or was that in the meeting notes I missed that. He was sitting there saying don't do video y'all are doing the wrong thing stop before you go off a cliff! There ya go yeah well we'll see

48:47 Mike the whole video thing I think is it's all about advertising. Yes It's part of they're trying to solve we tried to meet them in the middle Solving a problem that didn't really exist by making video Oh, well if we do video then and then all of a sudden it's understandable oh its videos like YouTube yeah exactly no it's not It's not because it is delivered differently, you still have the different metrics. Unless... unless you listen to the sound of my voice. Well some of the platforms are doing the alternate enclosure which is closer to free and open

49:30 You know, there's some doing it via API. We're right kind of in the middle of developing all that stuff here at Blueberry. But you see the thing is it's not about open or closed that's irrelevant It's about money flow Yeah That's all! If you want first-party data put your money where your mouth is That's it! Mike, what is Blueberry doing on video? We're going to be doing the Apple HLS. We'll support as much as we can of course because that's what customers seem to think they want How does that get measured how do you measure your HLS videos Is that a different metric than then you have for audio

50:22 I assume it's going to be very similar because, you know even with Apple they're pulling it from our servers so we'll have the log files on that. So we'll definitely develop stats that will be similar to what we do for audio Here is a question You have advertising products correct? We have for audio, yes. Audio programmatic. Okay so you offer this to your clients your customers who pay you handsomely on a monthly basis and then you interface or your company interfaces with the advertisers the agencies buying the ads it's probably Soundstack I'm just guessing with some other

51:08 big conglomerate. It's a third party that does the ad, you know and we just... And you give them the stats and then they pay you and then you take your cut and you paid the podcaster? Correct! Right so if you had I mean it just seems so simple to me I'm at a loss for words. It's so simple, it's so easy The Adam Accords, you're stuck on the Adam Accords The Adam Accords is...I mean it's in stone! It's on two tablets and good to go Don't throw it down the mountain, don't break it I'll just make you 2 more, don't worry about it Stone is cheap, make more

51:52 I think this is a winning solution and we're uniquely positioned to help them do this. And then, I'm just going to say that I think that this will be heard... But they don't want help because they did it all in secret! That tells me they don't want help. Well no, there's- They're just misguided They're misguided. No, they are! They're not seeing...they don't see the forest for the trees. Your critical flaw is that you are too optimistic You are not nearly cynical enough and beat down

52:35 They're also aiming at the top 5% of podcasters and however you define that. Which is even dumber! I mean how many... Sam Sethi, answer this question How many listening hours do you think True Fans provides on a daily, weekly monthly basis. I bet it's a lot! And how many ads are running that you could report back on? I'll bet its'a lot Now you add all of the podcast apps together It starts to get pretty interesting

53:17 Yeah, and you know the shows that get a hundred downloads an episode can be just as valuable to those hundred listeners Yes That you know somebody like Rogan that gets millions Of course And once you note once once the user is told hey I'm gonna give you a widget if you create a login or I'll cut you in, whatever it is. We kind of like that in podcasting we like distributing to everybody except the app developers for some reason and how many times have we heard hosting companies should support app companies? Everyone holds their own but there's a billion dollars of money out there A billion! A billion is a lot!

54:07 Yeah, well way back in the day you know and we at Blueberry we pretty much started as an ad agency for podcasters. But we tried to sell across a lot of little shows getting the same number of downloads as three or four big shows But the ad buyers are lazy and they don't want to, well they don't want it to keep track of 200 shows. Let's run the numbers a billion dollars that saying $1 billion extra money a bit says right there at billion dollars on the sidelines okay we'll help you bring in a billion dollars by creating a new metric that's a thousand million all right

54:52 So what if of that thousand million we take 10% well 5%. That's 50 million dollars. How many podcast apps are there? Starts to get interesting people! What if you can make a hundred grand on your app I don't know about this billion dollars sitting on the sidelines thing. Oh, absolutely! Of course... Like it's just sitting there? No no no no Waiting to be quote deployed? It's a billion dollars of money that is going to YouTube That's what it is You have to figure out the code language Yeah, yeah, okay There are billions of dollars that are only going to YouTube and that's why YouTube is in the group This is not good those guys suck

55:39 Are they in this group? I didn't think they were. Oh, I thought they were. Wait let me go back to the Amp Accords. Members okay members Flight Story Lipson Oxford Road PodScribe BetterHelp SiriusXM Media Ah! They're not in there Yeah, no they're not in there. Oh well it makes it even better So this is starting to make more sense Spotify and UTA so spotify is in this Spotify and SiriusXM They want to take my YouTube money everybody wants YouTube money Everybody wants YouTube money This is not a serious endeavor It could be I bet you they got an LLC

56:32 501 3C. Oh yeah, for sure but it's not a serious endeavor now Hey Mike you were supposed to be on last week I apologize actually invited you the week before I mean i'm such a mess That's okay. It actually wasn't me, that was my robot. Make sure you invite Dell over there! By the way congratulations on the 10% increase in the stock price of Dell computers I'm very happy for your family they popped today. Yeah it's funny I get email every once in a while because they have the email address mike at Mike dell dot com

57:12 And people call or email and complain about their Dell computer. I always just go buy a Mac. That's not great. Buy a Mac, dude you got a Dell Yeah, what's your... give me your service ID number and I'll see what I can do. Let me log into your computer give me a password. No Mike you had an exciting bit of news which is not necessarily new news right now but we do want to have you promote your wares Yeah, Brendan from Podpage and Blueberry got together and decided that Blueberry sucked at making landing pages that weren't WordPress. Who decided that? You or him? No we both did! All of us kind of did... It was mutual Well you know We had started on making a competing product to Podpage

58:10 And the further we got into it, I said this is hard. These guys are doing good! So you know, Brennan reached out to me first but I was real close to reaching out to him and he said hey let's do a deal so now as if you're hosting customer at Blueberry you have a choice You can use PowerPress and do a WordPress site or you can do a pod page and get that free basic a decent looking page from Podpage just by having a Blueberry hosting account. Do you mind if I ask you some business questions about this? Just out of pure interest Sure, but I'm under NDA

58:51 That was good. That was very good it actually my heart stood still for a moment like he's speaking to me from heaven So do you get a benefit if someone converts to a paying customer on pad pod page? Yeah Yeah, we have a relationship that way where either way they send us hosting customer. We send them a page I'm a pod page customer. I like them very much and I pay a lot of money to them to have the my own dot-com Working on their on their stuff so it's very good

59:31 You know, I've dealt with customers for 15 years using PowerPress and I've come to the conclusion that unless you're into WordPress it's not a good place to put a newbie. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Whereas PodPage...you go over there and make it look the way you want It works really well. It is just a no-brainer if you just want a simple landing page or if you want your own dot com It's awesome, you know and it is kind of the opposite of is the opposite flow whereas with with WordPress and PowerPress You create your design. And then you publish or

1:00:12 Whereas with Podpress, you publish and the design sucks it into whatever it needs to be. It's an opposite flow. And we have an exclusive template over there too for Blueberry customers. Ooh! Fancy! Does it have a little blueberry logo that goes back to your website? In the dashboard I guess. Yeah nice! Of course. Top five of the web. Brendan has been awesome to work with our dev team and him just knocked it out project we've had in a long time for major product release. You you've been who you've been like boots on the ground helping customers with so long nitty gritty details of launching their stuff, like in a way that I honestly don't know of any other podcast support person that does this. I mean, Abby, you're just lik

1:01:06 having phone calls with people to help them set up Word, PowerPress. And it feels like man that has just got to be the most frustrating experience sometimes because there's going to be like working on somebody's WordPress site and they've got 27 plugins and it's messing up everything. Yeah, the worst part of it now is a lot of the WordPress hosts want to upsell you security. Oh my gosh! You know? You got to have your site locked down like Fort Knox and they think that somebody hitting an RSS feed is oh that's gotta be a bot we'll just block that. And then yeah... It's just whack-a-mole I won't name them but there are some WordPress hosts out there

1:01:54 would say, don't use them. You know? So you know like I said WordPress is awesome! I use it on one of my shows you know it's great but I also have another show that I do that is on PodPage and specifically because I don't want to have to deal with all the possible problems with conflicts and all that in WordPress. Like I said, WordPress is great for those that like WordPress and we support that 100%. How does PodPage deal with video? Is that a thing they're handling yet? Yeah! They have the video player... They take the player from the host at least if you are on Blueberry customer you get the blueberry player on your pod page

1:02:45 And, you know and we as for our video podcasts we have a video player and they support that. So it's really no different. You know they're just creating a webpage out of the RSS feed and then you can go in and style it and add pages and whatnot I'm curious about this because We had a discussion this morning In our Godcaster signal chat We had a discussion this morning about stats and attribution and these kinds of things, just going back and forth about things. The web is such a messy environment you have like mobile apps, of course the podcast apps and that kind of thing. And that's a little more reliable just because there are so many barriers to entry

1:03:36 to do fraud on a platform like that as far as click fraud and those sorts of things. Oh yeah, I've been dealing with that with our programmatic. Oh have you? Okay. You can impersonate the user agent of those apps but to actually get real traffic from an installed app is more difficult There ya go! Your singing my praises once again let's get rid of all those stupid browser downloads SCAM Well didn't NPR come up with something like this way back when, you know where they wanted the apps to put in this first party stuff? That was an acronym with four letters. Yeah start with R

1:04:21 Rest, rest, rapid. RDA or Rad, rad, rad. There you go. Radio audio dumbos I can't remember what it stood for. Rad. Something like that yeah that's close you're close but I feel like the web though is just really there's no way to stop a certain amount of ad fraud and playback fraud. But how do you deal with that on something like PodPage if you're selling ads against it? Do you just discount a certain amount of the traffic that you're unsure of, I mean... Yeah, I'm not sure how they do web analytics over there but any of the audio advertising is going to come from Blueberry so... Right! I really meant like on your side

1:05:20 there's got to be a certain amount of traffic that you can't confirm one way or another if it's legit. You know, like how do you deal with the gray area traffic? Yeah we have quite a filter system in our stats. That you know... We block bots and you know and you know we'll see something oh geez look at this! We've got 40 000 downloads from Chrome in New York Okay, well that's obviously something going on there. You know so it's a constant thing we've got you know one of our devs that basically his main job is to monitor that stat system and block bots. Okay it's good to hear you say that because I keep thinking when I say its good from just a personal level because

1:06:20 Sometimes that I'm like, okay am i missing an easier way to do this because blocking bots feels like a literally a full-time job. Yeah it's a whack-a-mole thing you know there's right they come up from time to time you know it's like I've been dealing with the programmatic and whether we pay this person? They have uploaded 10 episodes in one day And then it's constantly getting 5,000 hits a day or $5,000 a day. Okay? And then I'll send an email and say hey this doesn't really look legit and all of the sudden no traffic. Right yeah just disappears Yeah they just disappear You know we used to have a free trial you know where oh for for a month you don't have to give us a credit card anything you can spin up a podcast so they'd spin up a podcast signup for programmatic and hit it with a bot farm

1:07:11 And you know, so we had to get rid of that free trial thing. So you did get rid of the free trial? Interesting! Yeah there's a promo code for free trial. If you ask they'll give you the promo code but uh... You know but you have put your credit card in now because that was the differentiator I gotcha, I gotcha. Because that-I know thats been a big back and forth discussion that happens in a lot of the hosting world is how lenient can you be? Because I know a lot of hosts feel like, well if I get rid of my free trial period then it's going to hurt my sign up, conversions and these kinds of things. But it sounds like y'all thought the trade-off was worth it.

1:07:58 Again, you know free is a lousy business model for what we're doing. For one thing... You know look at the anchor when it started there was so many like they weren't fake or whatever but there was Hello World and that was it And you know, we just don't want to deal with that. You know but we have a pretty low bar of entry so people want to try us out We're pretty easy going that way and if it doesn't work then we'll help you move How is the company PT?

1:08:37 PT post-todd. Oh, okay The thing was you know he was kind of our vision guy You know and and definitely he had his hands in a lot of what we did And so you know we've all kind of stepped up and took over certain parts of it He did here's the question and It's just the question because it's a question um Did were there like issues like passwords and stuff that nobody knew how it worked because Todd was in charge Not as much We have Todd's son on staff. He's one of our developers, and of course he had access to all that stuff as well so that You know look a cut you're like a continuity question account

1:09:27 Yeah, yeah. Continuity of government cog now the other thing is you know we have implemented a lot more of that You know because there are people on staff that are the only ones that do a certain thing. So now we're definitely cross training and you know, for payroll we've got now three people that can do payroll where before that we only had one wasn't tied but in a small outfit like that you gotta be careful with that kind of stuff and we have shared more one pass account, one password account that has a lot of the company related stuff in it. These are uncomfortable but important discussions for small businesses. Absolutely true Because a lot of the hosting world is very small I mean there's a lot of people who are 1-man shops 2 man shops 3 men When Dvorak went in for his double bypass There was some panic

1:10:24 Yeah, of course. No one knew how to get into anything Like what are we doing? You can't send out the newsletter wake him up Yeah, I mean like one day i'll send you the passwords for Git. For Linode. You're never gonna send me that! One day I'll put all my servers on the Godcaster account but when Tina sees the bill she'd be like hey what is all this? Yeah and I guess one of the other things that's changed at Blueberry postod uh... We're now focusing more on what we're good at and what we're interested in doing versus trying to do everything. Right So, you know this pod page deal was just one of those things where were not particularly good at web designs so why don't we give that to somebody that does it for a living? Good idea And focus on what we are good at

1:11:22 You know, we've got a couple other products that are going to get shipped out to different places. And because you know I don't want to be in the business of worrying about what font is on somebody's landing page. You know, I sent a buddy of mine to you guys for your YouTube 2 podcast feature and that is so good man! I love that Yeah, and we're really going to be pushing that a lot more because there's a lot of YouTubers out there that their stuff would be great on audio. It's so good because my friend he was like I'm gonna do a podcast. So what are you gonna? Do well? I'm gonna get it on YouTube knowing okay here We go now. I got to talk about this again, and I said do me a favor

1:12:07 Sign up for this and he did him so this called 10,000 miles Vic Pepe Yeah And I and I always get the podcast. I'm so happy because I have mine I've known Vic since I was you know 26 I don't think that one come in actually yeah, I don't need to see his face So I just want to listen just want to listen to you man It's easier for me and and he's so happy because it set and forget it You know He doesn't he sees a a charge once a month, he's like oh yeah that's for Adam. But I think actually he is doing quite well. I think it gets a lot of downloads. What's nice about the VidDepod thing is... VidDePod! For the users you know like I watch a lot of YouTube that's probably my

1:12:51 You know, if I say I'm gonna watch TV chances are it's going to be YouTube on the big screen. But you know it's not...I'm not talking about watching a podcast and just watching of a YouTube channel yeah and there's some of them that you know jeez I'd like to really watch this hour-long video but I don't really have an hour. Oh, I'd rather have it on my phone stick the earbuds in and go do something else while i'm consuming this content." And you know that's the selling point plus distribution you know if you're just on YouTube... If you're just on YouTube that's right! You can distribute to 125 or more other

1:13:29 Apps yeah, how many there are how many 125? That's that's the best I can get. I've been trying to figure that out But it was a lot about 125 ways to listen to an audio podcast Wow That's pretty good. You know, and then there is a certain subset of those you can actually watch video but I'm not the demographic to watch long form video on a phone. Just before we run out of time pretty soon, I want to welcome Leo Laporte to Podcasting 2.0 Welcome welcome Leo. Oh, yeah chapters on something chapters Yeah doing chapters that's right check chapter transcript setting and never would do it never be a part of that curry group

1:14:14 Person tag and the funding tag. You're fringe, Adam! Come on we're fringe. We are fringed. Rob... I'm happy he's doing that and certainly the funding tag helps him. Dave did you want to do anything with these clips? Do you want to push those to the next show or what do you want to do? Yeah we can flip it over into the next show thats fine. That is not a problem Yeah, that's fine. We can do that next week Okay I'm just looking at the time Should we thank some people here? Then we'll have a few more minutes left with Mike Yeah sure sounds good Oh Sam Sethi actually comes in and says...

1:15:03 We stream all MP3, MP4 or HLS content. We can then measure the actual plays total listen time we also know if an ad was played and for how long we have first party data for all apps hmm he's looking at this from a hosting perspective. Well that's I always forget they're double... That's happening a lot Mike is is hosting. We're seeing apps becoming hosting companies? Yeah, there's all kinds of competition coming in and I guess I understand it... If you have both ends of it that's even better if you got that- if you have an app AND you have hosting then you can do even more! One time we were thinking about making an app. I'm gonna make you guys so rich. I'm gonna make y'all SO rich. Well good. You stick with me.

1:15:52 Stick with the Adam Accords. Success will bring us together! Let's see, we had Martin Lindeskog with 1776 as Freedom Boost. Laissez-faire let the market decide I will continue podcasting without regular ads i have no problem listening to ads or skipping them but I will not be joining this secret group You're welcome to join the Adam Accords. It's gonna be fun Dreb Scott with one two three three two one and one two, three four all with test boots And he says the bat signal has been received we have Amsterdam boomer 751 Coming in with 91 sats from a fountain miss you guys hope you back tomorrow well here We are

1:16:36 And then thank you user 940187348888328, a fountain. Change it for your 6497 probably up to 65. Fountains is doing weird with their numbers I'm not sure what they're sending out weird numbers but i'm sure this 91 SAS was probably 100. I'm not sure why that's happening Fuzzy math. I don't know what it is and then i hit the delimiter so Dave, what do you have on your list? We got some pay pals here we've got timothy voice $10. Thank you, Timothy. Appreciate it. Oh here's a one-off! Here's a 61 dollars and 64 cents from Patrick Bomer on boarded way back by mention from Adam probably own no agenda since I learned a lot and like to support your good work love the technical exploration Dave does too Patrick Bomer it's BO

1:17:32 B-O-M-L-A-T M-E-R. Even the Dutch government can't do it right. Boomer, boomer, boomer! How do you pronounce it? You don't. You just say hey Patrick how are you doing? Okay thanks Patrick for sure. Bus Sprout thousand bucks Thank You boys and girls of buzzsprout it's the big hosting companies who support us big and small I should say lots of hosting company supporters And just wait until these apps start making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Thanks to the Adam Accords We will be remembering you Will keep you in mind we will keep you in mind

1:18:20 The Adam Accords. Tell me, it's a thing! Is going nowhere fast. Jorge Hernandez $5. Thank you Jorge Michael Goggin $5 Cohen Glotzbach 5 bucks thank you Cohen Christopher Reamer 10 dollars thank You Christopher James Sullivan ten dollars Randall Black Hey, Randy. Five bucks! Thank you. Dreb Scott $15. Thank you, Dreb. Chris Bernardik five bucks Michael Kimmerer five dollars and thirty three cents Charles Hicks five bucks And that's our PayPal group we got I've only seen...I only see one booster gram and that's from CSB Oh okay well that's the one Well we were gone last week so i guess people just said screw those guys We shot ourselves in the foot Big time

1:19:15 Uh, that is see it's coming through bar 20,000 sets through fountain. He says, howdy Dave and Adam please go to youtube.com slash at AI dash arch wizard and watch the latest 50 minutes long video. It's my interview with Andrew Grumman Adam's pal from MeVeo Podshow times where Andrew is showing how to yield force of vibe coding like Yoda to the max. Yo, CSB He somehow wrangled Andrew into a... Yes and we should correct him by saying that Andrew was not just from I hired him as the first hire at meveopod show because i'd worked with them in the early days on the iPoder stuff

1:20:02 He goes way back before Mevio. Does he go back to OnRamp? No, he doesn't go back to OnRamp but no... But he goes back to the very first days! And who were the guys who did the iPod or X? One guy was in Australia I think or New Zealand. Ah, forget who they were There's a couple people Grumet you know we work really well together Always enjoyed working with Andrew We had something called The Golden Ticket Oh yeah, you've told me about that. Which predates ad insertion where we would have a promotion across the net—across network promotion and... I bet you that's what the Amp Accords are going to reveal is a golden ticket. There has been 12 months of Podhemian Grove secrecy. Podhemian Grove! Oh man! Oh Dave oh man

1:21:03 Now if CSB is going to be doing 50 minute interviews on YouTube, he needs to be on VidDePod so we can listen. No kidding! Yeah for real! Really come on CSB support the blueberries Mike was blueberry consulted by the Amp Accords? No, we were not. Oh, I'm shocked! This is an outrage, I tell you. A stunning revelation! Well, Lipson's really... since they got into the advertising side of things, they're not what they used to be

1:21:40 Is Lipson a podcast hosting company anymore or are they just an advertising agency? I had somebody ask me that on the phone earlier today. And he said, yeah they're still around. No, I'm serious it's a serious question! Yeah you can still go over there and get your $20 account or whatever and do a podcast but i don't think that's their focus Yeah, it sounds like that's an... It sounds like that's a... What do they call those things that are your appendix? An appendix! No no. But I mean like vestigial organ. It's a vestigial organ. Well Rob and Elsie left there. Side gig. Rob and Elsie left there and now they're at Captivate. Congratulations to them but... Are they both there? Yeah yeah yeah. Rob is over there and Elsie

1:22:30 And I don't know, and there's still a couple people over at Libsyn that I know but that's it. You know, used to know everybody that worked here So here is my final pitch. I've just been sitting here just on my creative juices you're right Dave But I am perpetually optimistic happy guy I really am My pitch would be and this is something... maybe Sam Sethy could organize it someone...I'm very bad organizing If we all get together and it can literally be done on the Mastodon, it's not that hard. In Davos? What was that? We will eventually all meet in Davos of course! We're going to be so big...

1:21:40 Is Lipson a podcast hosting company anymore or are they just an advertising agency? I had somebody ask me that on the phone earlier today. And he said, yeah they're still around. No, I'm serious it's a serious question! Yeah you can still go over there and get your $20 account or whatever and do a podcast but i don't think that's their focus Yeah, it sounds like that's an... It sounds like that's a... What do they call those things that are your appendix? An appendix! No no. But I mean like vestigial organ. It's a vestigial organ. Well Rob and Elsie left there. Side gig. Rob and Elsie left there and now they're at Captivate. Congratulations to them but... Are they both there? Yeah yeah yeah. Rob is over there and Elsie

1:22:30 And I don't know, and there's still a couple people over at Libsyn that I know but that's it. You know, used to know everybody that worked here So here is my final pitch. I've just been sitting here just on my creative juices you're right Dave But I am perpetually optimistic happy guy I really am My pitch would be and this is something... maybe Sam Sethy could organize it someone...I'm very bad organizing If we all get together and it can literally be done on the Mastodon, it's not that hard. In Davos? What was that? We will eventually all meet in Davos of course! We're going to be so big...

1:23:18 all the app developers get together and we say, okay here's the pieces of data that we're going to make available. And here is what we want in return? We want this percent of your ad buy and we are gonna give you exact numbers tell you who heard the ads and were going have extra tiers where we talk to our customers our users until them...and will work out something with them think about it I mean this is totally the reverse SATS model Yeah, we're going to give you and you know what? Give them sats. Give them stable coin whatever you want paying Pam easy in the app doesn't have to be a lot of administration if you give us your name or some other personal details people will do this they don't care and especially don't care if they know they can make some money Be honest with him be open it'll work everyone will be happy I guarantee you We will have a summit when I do the summit in Alaska

1:24:14 Where the amp Accords and the atom accords will meet on the tarmac we Will be coming in with We're gonna do rake of it. We're gonna come over the D right give it that's good. Well come in DC 3 and we'll all fall out of this thing like a clown car Pallets of cash. Exactly! We're ready, we're here for the Accords we are good to go. Somehow some AC-10s get bought I don't know... A couple of Groundhog no problem. We are opening the straits. We'll bring in the Davos girls it's gonna be so much fun

1:25:03 We're gonna get Spurlock high. I mean it's Mike your name is gonna be on Wikipedia as one of the members of the Adam Accords that opened up the straights of podcasting All right gentlemen, yeah, thank you so much this has been one of the more enjoyable episodes Mike, thank you for contributing. Loved it very much. Boardroom went silent they basically went... what? They were like these guys are off the rails. They just left. They were confused I'm sure. Alright everybody we'll be back next week to bring you another board meeting where the fun is always to be had right here on Podcasting 2.0 See ya then everybody bye-bye

1:25:49 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast index org for more information Advertising is actually a pain in the butt